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Solstice
professor
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Rules clarification for the future... if needed. (Mods Invited)

submitted on May 26, 2009 by Solstice in "Buxr Website / Contests"
Its my understanding that if the older deal is expired, then no matter how similar they may be, that the new one is granted originality in terms of submission.

Its been this way the last year at least, and yet today I had two deals rejected as duplicates, even though the older posts had expired.

The first was with restaurant.com, where the company issued a coupon set to expire on the 5/25, but then after expiration, re-issued the coupon to expire on the 5/30. In effect they issued a new coupon for the same amount but a new expiration. Had I chosen not to submit the coupon with the new date, it would have remained dead.

http://www.buxr.com/deal/resta.....ates_24374
http://www.buxr.com/deal/resta.....ates_24126

Now, I was gonna suck that one up initially, but then this came about...

The old offer had clearly expired, with an expiration set for 5/03/09, and then the company apparently issued a new rebate using the same URL with a new expiration of 6/30/09. However, despite this my deal was still canceled as a duplicate, even though the old offer had been expired for almost a month. Even if the previous submitter had simply messed up the expiration first time around, that is hardly my fault, and I should not be penalized for their inaccuracy that was only caught 22 days later. Had I chosen not to submit the coupon with the new date, it would have remained dead.

http://www.buxr.com/deal/10-re.....-oil_24377
http://www.buxr.com/deal/quake.....bate_19819

Call me crazy, but I think I should get "original submission" status for introducing two decent deals, which had previously expired, and were no longer available on Buxr. Unless a change to rules occurs, but even then I think treating my posts in an ex post facto manner is rather unjust in light of previous rulings on such site matters.
 

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  Comments
  • 26415
    Solstice
    professor
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    Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    Basically allowing posts to be treated in such manner, means that even if the old offer was dead or expired, so long as I declare duplicate, the old offer can be kicked alive and the new one rejected if they are the same value and/or code. Even if the old offer had expired or gone out of stock, and then later was re-offered. (Note that some sites recycle codes over time, such as ThinkGeek, where the same word-code is used, but given a new expiration date, and we just had a Wii console deal that was granted "original submission" status per current site rules.)

    This precedent would be a drastic change in the rules, and if that is to be the case, then I would at least like some discussion on the issue first if possible.
  • 26419
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 26, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    In the first case, the promotion never expired. We got an email from Restaurant.com that says "Offer extended through May 30th. ". So it is the same promotion and this is why your submission is a duplicate.

    In the second case, your rebate looks exactly like the rebate linked in the original deal. There is no way for me to verify if this is a new coupon or the submitter made an error. I tend to think it is an error since the promotion runs from March 31 and the deal was submitted on April 3.
  • 26423
    Solstice
    professor
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    Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    I just want to make sure I have this straight. (Restaurant.com submission aside.)

    I'm being held liable for the inaccuracy of another member then. A 22-Day old inaccuracy to boot.

    Instead of giving the new accurate submission the benefit of the doubt, you're giving it to the old inaccurate one then. (Um, Okay?)

    You're also disavowing any possibility that the same url could have been used twice, even though we have seen other sites do the same thing.

    Does this seem even the slightest bit odd... at all Yan.

    That and you might be painting yourself into a corner in the future with this new precedent.
  • 26424
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 26, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I did some searching. Here is a Slick Deals thread that was started around the same time (April 2) and has the rebate coupon attached. The promotion dates on that coupon are March 31 through May 3. It looks like the promotion was extended just like in the case of the Restaurant coupon code.

    http://forums.slickdeals.net/s.....&t=1277401
      26426
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Alright Yan, but you know I'm going to "favorites" this puppy, and later on I'm going to pull it out as precedent to kill other deals. No one will deny I've always I've always been a rules gestapo, and this makes a new and interesting one to abide by.

      This is the unofficial invite for anyone else to contest this new ruling now, or forever hold their peace and be bound by it. If this is the will of Yan, and end result, I will see it enforced later.

      You know I love you Yan, in that strictly non-platonic way of course, but I think other members are not going to like this later on. However, if this is to be the ruling and precedent so be it.
  • 26427
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 26, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    Rules aside. I am trying to strike a balance here between avoiding duplicate submissions and keeping you guys interested in digging out new deals. I think this case is somewhere in the middle.

    The deal ($10 Oil Rebate) hasn't changed very much and there is somewhat limited value in re-posting it, but if the majority here thinks it is worthwhile seeing it re-posted, I am open to consider the possibility of setting the rules that way.

    Maybe we should consider a threshold (e.g. 30 days like with product deals) for reposting deals with extended expiration dates. Here is a very good example of what I mean:

    http://www.buxr.com/deal/borde.....upon_21295

    You are free to re-submit that deal (with the same deal URL) every 30 days! Wink
      26428
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I always assumed rebates are like coupons and can't be resubmitted once posted, unless expired of course. However, then you are really posting a new coupon, or in this case a rebate.

      My issue is that it was expired, and then the same offer was made available again. We don't strike coupons down for this, and rebates are pretty much equivalent, just add stamp and time.

      You yourself stated Yan, that the offer was submitted with an original expiration, it then expired, and then the company offered it again with a new expiration.

      I honestly don't see how this is different than submitting a new coupon of the same value after the old one expired.
    • 26429
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      PS: The value is that the old deal was long-dead, and I provided an equal but current value offer. (Different with new date.) People would have ignored that old post as it stated expired, and therefore there was no value for anyone to be had in that. I dug the deal out of another site, not from here, and did not even remember a similar deal posted earlier. Also, I can't see any member investigating expired rebate links in the hopes of getting lucky. Confused
    • 26431
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      PSS: I like how active posted coupons and rebates can't be resubmitted.

      Side Note: Expirations should be and are the responsibility of the submitter to ensure accuracy.
      If they don't want a good coupon/rebate submitted later, they should get it right the first time.
  • 26430
    Solstice
    professor
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    Posted by Solstice on May 26, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    Anyone care to pipe in? I'm really curious to get other input from members.
      26457
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Sadly, some of our most vocal members have elected to say nothing on this topic, even though they have been active on the site since it started.

      I guess everyone else is more concerned about a single daily contest rather than an important rules change, let it stick as a new rule then if no else wants to discuss it.

      I formally dub thee the "extension rule".

      I promise you all are not going to like this later on, and you can't blame me, as I spoke on it.
    • 26480
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I'd have to say, I'm with Solstice on this one. The same thing that happened to you Solstice happened to me a little while ago when the free Pepsi coupon expired, and it was dead for about a month, and then Pepsi had the offer again so I posted it and they canceled my deal and just renewed the other deal!

      So yes, I agree with you Solstice.
    • 26485
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Did not know this had occurred before, else I would have brought it up sooner.
      Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as its good to know I'm not alone at least.
    • 26506
    • MrCheap
      professor
      2
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      Posted by MrCheap on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Aren't freebies a 'no-no' for resubmission regardless of expiration? I think this has been discussed before
    • 26508
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      The rules regarding freebies are not in question here. I think they are fine as they are.
    • 26512
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Oh, I did not catch that MacGuyver's reference was to a"free" Pepsi. I see what your talking about, but in that case the freebie was apparently declared dead, so its kind of in the same boat here. Even a year later a freebie can't be re-submitted if its been active the whole time.

      We are focused on expired coupons and rebates being re-submitted here.
    • 26515
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on May 27, 2009 [reply] 1 1
      Solstice! You misspelled my name! I thought "The Professor" never misspelled! Wink
    • 26516
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      And what about this freebie rule? If a freebie is not available and then it becomes available again you can't re-submit it?
    • 26517
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I don't see why not, but you are moving off topic. We should stick to discount coupons and rebates with this discussion. If you want to have that discussion, I recommend starting another thread. We don't want two debates going at the same time as people will get confused.

      PS: You forgot two commas and used the wrong punctuation, so PPPBBBHHTT! Razz
    • 26518
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      But what about my previous question?

      And what about this freebie rule? If a freebie is not available, and then it becomes available again, you can't re-submit it?
    • 26519
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Off-topic! Start a new discussion if you want to talk about it. (See Previous Statement)
  • 26507
    MrCheap
    professor
    2
    1 1 1
    Posted by MrCheap on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I think resubmission of old expired coupons and sales should be allowed. This is no different than re-submitting the same products after 30 days or when price goes down.

    I am not sure about resubmission of coupons that expired yesterday and were extended for a day or two more.
      26510
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Thats why I was not really protesting the restaurant.com submission initially, but then the Quaker State deal, dead for 22 days total, fell to the same fate of rejection and then "extension" of the old deal. In the end though, there was not really any difference, as both were previously expired offers. It would only make sense that whatever the rule ends up being, that it would have governed both situations. However, adding a "must be dead for 24 hours" clause seems more than reasonable to me. (At least then deals that expire a midnight, can't be resubmitted due to the time zone discrepancy, so a 24 hour clause might be needed. This would have prevented re-submission of restaurant.com)
  • 26522
    Solstice
    professor
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    Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    Yan, we have heard from two other members, so I'm curious to know if the policy is open for reevaluation, or if we are all just babbling for nothing here at this point?
      26537
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Of course it is open for reevaluation. My concern is the deals like this:

      http://www.bordersmedia.com/visitborders/

      This is a never expiring coupon which Borders updates every week or so. I would hate to see it resubmitted ever week. It brings no value to our collection of deals.

      I am fine with allowing resubmission of extended / updated coupons like this but we want some threshold to discourage you guys from doing it too often. How about 30 days counting from the last expiration date on record for the submission?
    • 26539
    • Solstice
      professor
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      Posted by Solstice on May 27, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Seems like a reasonable compromise and ruling. If I understand you fully, if its been dead for 30 days, then it can be resubmitted, otherwise the previous deal is extended. Am I correct?
    • 26544
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Yes, this is correct
  • 26528
    TheBest
    professor
    6 3
    9 1 1
    Posted by TheBest on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I am with Mr.Cheap. But if any coupon or sale is going to extend with same coupon code or bar code then we should just edit/alive that deal.
  • 26543
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on May 27, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    ok, so does this mean and end to the michaels coupons that are on here continuously? and the others? Those coupons are never extended but once one expires another one appears almost immediately. In this instance will the old deal be re-submitted with a new expiration? And then in that instance you would be linking to an old dead coupon and the link would also have to be fixed to reflect the new coupon.

    Am I making sense?
  • 26545
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 27, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    If coupon URL or code changes then you can re-submit any time. If URL or code doesn't change then resubmit only after it is dead for 30 days (in case it is extended), or simply update the old deal (flag as alive and we will edit it).

    I understand each printable Michaels coupon comes with a unique bar code which makes it different. I am totally fine with resubmitting these as each of them has value

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