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YanBz
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Proposed changes to the deal voting rules

submitted on March 2, 2009 by YanBz in "Buxr Website / Contests"
Some of you have probably been noticing that our contests are in a bit of a deadlock right now. Not that we didn't have problems before but with a lot of new members joining this month our contests have been thrown somewhat out of balance. The deals don't get votes, at least not enough for Mike and me to make any meaningful picks at the end of the day (to award prizes).

It is probably not immediately obvious for our new members that voting up the deals submitted by your peers is an important part of the contests, your votes in essence make them work. Therefore I suggest a change to the contest rules that will mandate every contributing member to make a matching number of votes - two votes for every submitted deal.

In essence as you participate you will have to maintain a balance. When you vote up 2 contest eligible deals, you get +1 submission in your account, 4 positive votes give you +2 submission, etc. You can then use your balance at any time your like for new deal submissions. New members will receive 3 free deal submissions when they sign up, any additional deal submission they make will require votes.

It is currently hard for me to think of all the implications this change may have but it is clear something has to be done to get things in balance.

Love it or hate it, please have your voice heard in the comments!
 

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  Comments
  • 17337
    MacGyver
    beginner
    2
    Posted by MacGyver on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    I think it's a great idea! I love it!
  • 17339
    MrCheap
    professor
    2
    1 1 1
    Posted by MrCheap on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 2 0
    I don't see anything new, you are just enforcing what all long timers already know

    GIVE LOVE TO GET LOVE!


    Red Face Confused Wink Surprised Mad Razz
  • 17340
    MikeG
    learner
    Posted by MikeG on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 2 0
    I think this is the best solution yet. It's all about balance, and this perfectly addresses the current issues with the contest and participation.
  • 17341
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    I would request one stipulation, in that for votes to be counted towards deal submission credits, that they be placed on contest active items. (i.e. You can't go vote up old stuff so that you can post new. Wink )

    If that can be arranged then I'm on board with the change.
      17342
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Never mind, just read that the stipulation was already outlined.

      Count Me In Support-Wise!
  • 17343
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    From your phrasing though it sounds like only "positive votes" count towards credit, which I like. Big Grin

    "When you vote up 2 contest eligible deals..."
  • 17344
    MacGyver
    beginner
    2
    Posted by MacGyver on March 2, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    So when will the plans take effect?
      17345
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Thanks for pointing out the possible side effect, where a member could just vote up everything to bank points/submission credits. However, I doubt many will complain even if ineffectual, as anyone would most likely notice voting habits for when a member does decide to post a deal.
      (It could be said that that was a very revealing thing to do. Wink )
    • 17346
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 2, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Huh?
  • 17363
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 2 0
    I think resetting the balance every month is a good idea. It will prevent banking points indefinitely
      17367
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Thats a swell idea Yan! Wink
  • 17365
    veggiemonkey
    beginner
    Posted by veggiemonkey on March 2, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    I think that this plan might lead to random voting or voting for poorer deals in an effort to do listings.

    I only started listing deals about 13 days ago. The 11 days of last month I only listed 20 items and got 8 deal awards. I was careful in my listings. I only voted 6 times because I only saw 6 deals I liked and/or used.

    This month I've started listing more, partially b/c there are not outstanding deals out these last two days (retailers aren't sweating their numbers at the beginning of a month or week). I also started voting with less discretion, to do better in the monthly contest. I hate to do it, but I decided if people are approaching the site like a game instead of a community, then I might as well too.

    I guess where my opinions are headed would be in the direction that, if you concentrate on rules, then it's going to be approached as a game and people will seek the loopholes and "cheat codes" to win. I joined two weeks ago b/c it seemed like a community, but the monthly contest makes it a competition. If someone wants to waste their time blanketing the site w/ crap deals, let them waste their time. I think my record and others that have gotten 25% or better "best deals" shouldn't be punished for bad deal-posters.

    Hopefully, I know whether this is a competition or community, soon, so that I might act accordingly.
      17369
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 2, 2009 [reply] 1 1
      I'm inclined think if you had been around for a longer period of time you might see things differently. Not an insult, nor do I mean to trivialize your opinion, just that having more experience with the site would probably change your viewpoint.

      The sad truth is, that like all places and things in life, guidelines must be set in some fashion to ensure fair play. If men were angels there would be no need for government, and if all of us here were angels, there would be no need for rules on Buxr. (Due credit given to Alexander Hamiltion.)
    • 17373
    • MrCheap
      professor
      2
      1 1 1
      Posted by MrCheap on March 2, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      There is a point in what Veggiemonkey says. I suggest making the restrictions lose enough to not bother normal people but strict enough to prevent extreme cases of members flooding the site with deals and not making a single vote.
  • 17374
    veggiemonkey
    beginner
    Posted by veggiemonkey on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    Well, I suggested before that the deals per member should have a daily cap or 5 or more generously 10. But, that was shot down. Instead, it's being suggested that someone that lists hundreds of deals vote twice that amount to make up for it. If someone does not take careful consideration in posting a deal (something that takes a few minutes) they certainly are not going to take the time to consider what deals are good to vote on.

    I think a couple of changes would fix it:
    1) Cap each members number of daily listings at 5 (This still allows about 150 per month, which is still a generous fit for most posters.). Careful and thoughtful deals (good deals) will bring votes and more interest in browsing the zeros.
    2) The monthly contest would only be for voting.
    3) Instead of the voting contest being based on the number you got right (regardless of how many you got wrong), the winner is based on a percentage and minimum monthly votes. For example you must vote at least 90 times in a month and then of those people the ones with the highest percentages win. (Make a separate contest for monthly best deals if desired.)
      17375
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      1. I don't see how this helps to bring in votes
      2. It is fairly easy to guess best deals if you vote late, so the idea of a monthly contest based on just voting is not feasible

      Regarding your comment about crappy deals, vote down any crappy deals and you will (a) gain points towards the monthly contest (b) punish the member posting them
  • 17380
    veggiemonkey
    beginner
    Posted by veggiemonkey on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    My suggestions are made in an attempt to try to help in quality control while encouraging participation. If the quality is better people will browse the new items more.

    2. It is fairly easy to guess best deals if you vote late, so the idea of a monthly contest based on just voting is not feasible
    I agree with this, but I think some people like to vote but aren't rewarded because of those that vote a lot and list a lot.

    I'm not sure how tough this would be, but what if you could score more if you voted earlier on a daily winner. Something like first vote on a daily deal is worth 4 points, 2nd 3 points and 3rd is 2 points and then 1 one or zero points after that or some other graduated scale. Something that encourages early voting and makes people search the new deals.

    I sincerely believe that if you can improve the quality of voting and posting, then you will improve the desire to participate through engagement and higher numbers of members.
      17381
    • veggiemonkey
      beginner
      Posted by veggiemonkey on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Then again, you'd just have people vote once on everything when it's listed.

      Hmmmm...

      Okay more ideas no one will like

      -No monthly competition.
      -Prizes for listing stay the same (cap each members listing at 5 a day)
      -$2 Prizes for first vote on the deals of the day (cap each members daily votes at 5 votes a day)

      These caps when totaled against the top 25 from last month still allow for growth of overall numbers of votes and deals. They might also encourage an ongoing daily participation and allow more members a chance to win.
    • 17414
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I like your third idea but I think that instead of a $2 prize let it be a 2 point prize to the first 2 or 3 people who vote on a winning deal. What do you think?
  • 17388
    kldpm
    professor
    2 1
    Posted by kldpm on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I think if you put a restriction on posting a deal (based on votes), some people might be discouraged to post deals (or forced not to post deals) thereby reducing the number of posted deals -> reduction in clicks -> reduction in revenue to the site.
    Instead I think everyone should be allowed post deals without any restrictions, but the restriction should be imposed on the contest. for e.g. if a member posts 10 deals, but votes for 4 deals on a day then only 4 out of his 10 deals will be eligible for daily contest. Also I think the ratio should be 1:1 to start with. The problem with 2:1 ratio - it puts a lot more dependency on other members to post deals. On some days (weekends especially) the number of deals posted and votes are very less.
      17392
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      The weekends is not an issue since if you vote regularly you should have a balance of deal submissions accumulated over time which you can then use at any day, even on weekends when the deals you can vote on are scarce

      I understand the concern you have about discouraging the members who submit a lot. We have the same concern. We don't want to punish these members and I somewhat disagree with Veggiemonkey that the quality of deals is low. So far the deals have been fairly decent. That said, I have a bigger concern about balancing the contest and this is what this proposal is all about.

      We could start with 1:1 ratio and see what it gives us. I am worried though that it will not be enough to make any difference. If you look at the last month stats, 4 out of 6 winners had a ratio greater than 1:2, some much greater than that. This is a ratio that seems to work
    • 17409
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I'm with Yan on this one, I definitely think that we should stick with the 2:1 raito, at least for a little while and see how that effects the site, and if it doesn't work out they can always change it to a 1:1 ratio.
  • 17394
    phunkeey
    teacher
    Posted by phunkeey on March 3, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    Honestly the deals haven't been good recently. C'mon people how many of you are buying memory cards for your laptop every other week?
      17399
    • JackBauer
      admin
      Posted by JackBauer on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I am with your phunkeey. But, I don't know if is because of the users. I think retailers are not providing us with enough ammo to post. The holidays are over, retailers are hurting, they are afraid to cut prices lower. But, I am tired of seeing ram and SD cards too.

      As for the voting, I am in favor of voting to get posts. I for one am getting discouraged from posting deals. Everyday, I a post deals first thing in the morning, only to find that throughout the day, I get zero votes. Now, I know not all my deals are great, but some are and they get nothing.

      It was time for a change and I think Yan and Mike are doing a great job.
  • 17401
    MikeG
    learner
    Posted by MikeG on March 3, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    It's funny most of us don't even consider the down vote as a "vote." I can understand why most users avoid casting these votes, because in a small community it's an easy way to make foes.

    Perhaps if more down votes were cast, it would eliminate a lot of the bad deals we are talking about. And it would also give more visibility to the good deals.

    In Yan's orginial post he wrote "When you vote up 2 contest eligible deals, you get +1 submission in your account, 4 positive votes give you +2 submission, etc."

    Maybe we should include down votes in the vote to submission ratio.
      17412
    • JackBauer
      admin
      Posted by JackBauer on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Mike, you hit the nail on the head. I for one use the down vote sparingly to avoid making foes in this great community. I think some see down votes as a personal attack, but I could be wrong. As someone who has received worst deal of the day, I have no problems receiving down votes if the deal is really bad. I just hope it is used for what it is designed and not retaliation.
  • 17415
    phunkeey
    teacher
    Posted by phunkeey on March 3, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    On a trial basis make down votes anonymous, and I guarantee there would be a free for all.
      17436
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      That's a good idea!
    • 17440
    • MikeG
      learner
      Posted by MikeG on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Phunkeey, I think the deals are fairly good. So I don't want to see free for all down vote.
  • 17438
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on March 3, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    Hope it works out with whatever you decide to do, but I've skimmed most of the comments and here is what I like personally idea wise.

    1. Ratio of 2:1 top start, and then only switch to 1:1 if it does not seem to work out.

    2. Submission credit earned only for positive votes, so as to encourage members to cast positive ones and not just negative. Voting up the good deals is the goal here, even though voting down the bad also has its own value.

    3. Big huge NO! to voting anonymously.

    4. If you don't want to see SD/Flash deals just don't vote for them, or you can even vote them down to make a point if you want, just be sure to leave behind your true reasoning so the message is heard.

    5. With the current size of the community the number of submissions should only be restricted by the number of positive votes cast. Perhaps when more members start posting on a regular basis, this idea can be brought back onto the table.

    6. The votes for submission credit will serve as their own reward, with no further monetary incentive needed.

    7. Do not differentiate between the first vote and the last on a deal point-wise. If you think a member is voting too last minute and too often, you can elect to stop supporting them, or return he favor of waiting till the end for that member. With everything in the open this is plain to see usually.

    8. It would be very difficult and near improbable to win the monthly contest with never having taken a daily prize, the best anyone has ever done on that account is 3-4 daily prizes and then accompanied by votes for others. (I know because it was me last month, and I was seeking to purposefully prove the theory that it could be done.)

    9. Submission credits reset every month, with perhaps only 4-10 credits carried over at most from the previous month.

    10. Lima beans should be banned, and their sale or consumption punishable by being thrown into a burlap sack with a live angry monkey for a minimum of ten minutes.
      17443
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 3, 2009
      [reply] 1 0
      I think that they are all fine except for idea number 10, I think it should be extended to twenty minutes. Wink
    • 17444
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 3, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      LOL! I think your right, twenty minutes is a far more fitting punishment. Big Grin
    • 17470
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 3, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      So, when will this take effect? (If it's OK with the admins! Wink )
    • 17472
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 3, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Well first we have to find the live angry monkey to use. Razz
  • 17500
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on March 4, 2009
    [reply] 1 0
    The change should be active now. We went ahead with 1:1 ratio for now to give it a try (each deal vote on a contest eligible deal will give you one deal submission credit). Both negative and positive votes count. The credits will reset at the end of the month to 5 which is also the initial credit the new users get when they sign up.
  • 17505
    MacGyver
    beginner
    2
    Posted by MacGyver on March 4, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I just submitted a deal, how do I tell how many points I have left? Or do I have any?
      17541
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on March 5, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      You can see your submission credit on the first submission page (when you click 'Submit a Deal')
    • 17554
    • MacGyver
      beginner
      2
      Posted by MacGyver on March 5, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Could you make the number in bold so that is is easier to see? Right now it's pretty easy to miss.
  • 19018
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on March 22, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    oh wow, just read this. right now i have over 60 credits for deal submission. From what i understand i have to use these by 3/31 or lose them?
      19019
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on March 22, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      You don't have to use them. I have around 250 credits, and I don't think I could use them up if I tried. However, at the beginning of the month you start with 5 free credits to get you going.
    • 19023
    • MrCheap
      professor
      2
      1 1 1
      Posted by MrCheap on March 22, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I have 184 credits. The ratio 1:2 would be more useful IMHO
  • 19022
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on March 22, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    ok i understand that i get 5 free credits at the beginning of the month but i lose the 60+ i have now right?
      19025
    • MrCheap
      professor
      2
      1 1 1
      Posted by MrCheap on March 22, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Seems like it. This rule was just added last month so we never saw points reset yet
  • 19026
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on March 22, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    ok. thanks for your replies.

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