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YanBz
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Minor change to the contest rules (related to deal voting)

submitted on May 8, 2009 by YanBz in "Buxr Website / Contests"
I will be implementing a minor change to the contest rules over the next week. As of the moment all votes for/against a contest eligible deal if they are made before the contest deadline will result into monthly points if the deal wins. All deals that stay up for at least 24 hours get rolled into the contest drawing at the end of the day.

This (currently implemented) rule has a slight problem. Since all deals are grouped together for the contest, depending on moderation time, some deals get exposed for a longer while others for a shorter period of time which gives some deals advantage over others.

The upcoming change will give each deal an individual voting window of 24 hours (counting from the moment the deal is moderated) and only the votes collected during the 24 hours will a) result into points, and b) will be used to make the daily win decision.

The votes on the right side bar will be grouped into two parts with eligible votes listed on top and the rest (made after 24 hours are over) at the bottom. The vote count on the left (in the voting box) with show the total just as it does now

I can see several benefits. First this sets in stone the final contest vote count for each deal upon the deal's reaching 24 hours and renders needless the arguments about which deal had more votes at the end since we all can see contest votes for each deal even after the contest is long over (we can list these vote counts on the daily contest page as well). Second, as I already mentioned, each deal will be given an equal opportunity to gain votes, each will have exactly 24 hours, and only the votes collected during the 24 hour period will be considered when deciding on the winning deals. Third, this will make late voting ineffective since each deal will have its own life span.

A drawback? The only one I see is that it will become a bit harder (but not impossible) to know at the moment when you vote if your vote counts towards the contest. But this should not be a problem because ultimately this is not important at the time you are casting the vote. (I will explain later how you can know this during voting)

Any thoughts or suggestions?
 

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  Comments
  • 24476
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on May 8, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    This is a very ingenious idea, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
      24481
    • MikeG
      learner
      Posted by MikeG on May 8, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Yep. Yan really masterminded this one!

      I think once people see the votes visually, it will be much easier to understand. Plus the average Buxr member has a very high IQ Smile !
  • 24483
    TheBest
    professor
    6 3
    9 1 1
    Posted by TheBest on May 8, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    Hmmm so my understanding is that "Whenever you see any new deal cast your vote"
      24486
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      It could possibly produce that effect, but some voters don't care about the points as much, if at all, which means their votes will become that much more valuable possibly. All the regulars could vote up every single deal, but then a single voter is all it would take to decide the actaul contest.
    • 24490
    • TheBest
      professor
      6 3
      9 1 1
      Posted by TheBest on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      But those voters generally cast their vote whenever they go through the deals and they don't wait till night.
    • 24492
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I think I know what your concern is, but those questionable voters are not going anyone until they make a mistake, or some solidarity manifests itself to force them out. They are driven by selfishness and greed, and that fundamentally won't change with any rule alterations.

      This might actually help that issue some, as it will help prevent questionable voters from waiting until the end, to try and skew the contest results at the last minute. It is just forcing people to vote earlier, even the questionable ones, and its goal is to inhibit last minute voting overall. What this might mean is that those questionable voters will have to vote earlier, and it might make them easier to spot over time. I think its possibly a win-win scenario for now.
    • 24497
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      It makes gaming harder in the sense that the final contest picture gradually forms during the day as deals mature (vs. in an instance during the contest cut off with the old rules). This means you can't simply come around 8pm and cast the decisive vote to any deal. The majority of deals that play out that night will be out of the 24 hours window and your vote will not change anything.
  • 24485
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    Nothing fundamentally changes. My feeling is that this is how voting should have worked to begin with and what I have done so far is a shortcut
  • 24489
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    I'm going to make a bold suggestion.

    Lose the time counter on the deals, until they actually turn 1 day old. This means that there would be no counter for the first 24-Hours, thus helping to prevent members from trying to wait until the 22nd or 23rd hour to vote. While Power Users would still know that they can edit that deal, since no counter has yet been put up. This would not effect the front page hot listings either, as you set it for days anyway.

    I'm trying to see how we really need the counter at the moment. The actaul age of a deal does not change deal itself, it only tells you how many hours old it is. That and the "recency" style listing clearly indicates which order deals arrived in for determining duplicates.
      24493
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      This is a bit too sneaky to my liking. I like the time counter since it tells the shopper how fresh the submission is.
    • 24495
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      You make it sound like were buying fish. Big Grin

      I see your point in a roundabout way, but only because of human nature.
      (No, I don't want to explain that previous statement further.)

      However, I still submit for your consideration the prophesy foretelling of the 23rd hour scenario.
  • 24494
    YanBz
    admin
    Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I realize with time and brains you can game the new rules just as you could the old ones.

    1. I feel that the new voting rules are more fair.
    2. I hope that they are slightly harder to game and so will encourage people to play fairly. Is $70 at the end of the month really worth the time and effort you put into figuring out how to game voting? Wink

    With the number of prizes we give away this month any voter who more or less regularly comes to Buxr and casts votes to deals they feel are hot will get one (I am counting mugs as prizes too). Buxr needs your early votes since they help visitors spot good deals sooner. Early votes and fair play is what this change is about
      24496
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      For what its worth I agree with you entirely.
    • 24499
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      If you insist, one minor sneaky thing that we could do is not to show the 'in contest'/'out of contest' split of votes on the side bar until after the contest is over. This way the '23 hours' trick is more difficult to play since you don't know the standings for the day (some of the other member's votes you see on the deals may have accumulated after 24 hours and will not be included in the daily drawing)
    • 24533
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I see advantages to both methods. Not really sure which is better at this point.
      I would say do which ever is easier coding wise now, as you can always change it later, but you might save yourself some effort possibly if it works out well.
  • 24506
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on May 9, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    this is going to be interesting. this will also let people know who continually casts votes after the contest period ends.
      24510
    • sunflower2
      beginner
      Posted by sunflower2 on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I don't really understand the ins and outs of the voting strategies here since I'm not really a good strategic game player.

      When I first started voting I cast a lot of votes after the contest period ended because I didn't really realize when the contests ended. I still do sometimes because I tend to vote for what I consider good deals rather than for contest reasons.

      Anyway, my question is, is voting after the contest period ends a bad thing for some reason?
    • 24519
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      No, not at all, but this is just my opinion. Others perceive it as an attempt by the member to boost the vote count w/o actually helping members who submit deals win the contest.

      You are doing the right thing. Come to Buxr as often as you can and vote good deals up and bad deals down. The contest is really an attempt to reward your doing it.
  • 24513
    MacGyver
    beginner
    2
    Posted by MacGyver on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    So when will the daily contest end, if every deal has it's own timer?
      24520
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      The daily contest will end as usual. At the cut off time we will pick all deals with "expired timer" and award those that collected the most votes while the "timer was still up"
  • 24528
    overaged
    apprentice
    1 1 1
    Posted by overaged on May 9, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    when is this new plan going into effect?
      24541
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      I will be rolling it out in two phases.

      First phase - your votes will count for the contest only when made within 24 hours of deals moderation. The winners will still be based on total votes. Second phase - the winners will be based on contest votes only.

      I activated the first phase earlier today. Tonight's contest will still be done in the traditional way (based on all votes). Tomorrow's contest will be based on contest eligible votes only.
    • 24543
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 9, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I do want to fill a small protest for the benefit of all, just regarding today's results.

      If the votes counts towards the end results today, then they should be worth the point as well.

      I got the impression you were going to give the heads-up slightly prior to activation, and that both "phases" would occur simultaneously as one change.
    • 24547
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      It is technically hard to implement as one phase, sorry about it. It should not be a problem however (unless you vote late Wink ).
  • 24529
    chinnam
    teacher
    1 2 1
    Posted by chinnam on May 9, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    Great idea n i am pretty curious and waiting for this update. Big Grin
    Please make it ASAP. Smile Smile

    Thanks a lot YanBz Idea
  • 24617
    Solstice
    professor
    1 6 2
    11 4 1
    Posted by Solstice on May 10, 2009
    [reply] 0 1
    Something just occurred to me, and perhaps you've already arranged it, but thought I would bring it up.

    I seems to make sense that only votes placed on items during their contest period, should be worth submission credits. This would hopefully still encourage early voting some.
      24665
    • YanBz
      admin
      Posted by YanBz on May 10, 2009 [reply] 0 0
      Absolutely! It is already done
  • 24773
    gooddeal
    beginner
    Posted by gooddeal on May 11, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    The changes you made were great.Now we can see everyone gonna use their votes in time.
    Thankyou YanBz for bringing this.
    But, for me this is not good.Most of deals are Confused Neutral crossing 24 hours when i am back from my office.
  • 24877
    phunkeey
    teacher
    Posted by phunkeey on May 12, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I don't think this is a minor change. I think it is a drastic change that completely changes the contest. I prefer the old way. Now, there is simply no point in voting on a deal past its 24 hour point but before the close of the contest which could be an entire day in some cases.

    Personally I think votes should not be displayed until after the contest, but I realize I'm outnumbered on that one.
      24879
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 12, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      I'm starting to have second thoughts as well, but I'll give it a few more days play out before really deciding or voicing discontent. However, I'm starting to see what you mean Phunkeey, and I'm not entirely sure I like the change.

      Its changed advantages and timing in a manner that I had not initially anticipated, and many of the effects that I had hoped have not really surfaced yet.
  • 24881
    TheBest
    professor
    6 3
    9 1 1
    Posted by TheBest on May 12, 2009 [reply] 0 0
    I like this change,no more manipulation in voting and it's easy too,just visit the site atleast two times in a day and cast your votes.
      24966
    • Solstice
      professor
      1 6 2
      11 4 1
      Posted by Solstice on May 13, 2009
      [reply] 0 1
      Its removed one aspect of manipulation, but its also exacerbated another.

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